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Post by christian on Mar 2, 2016 17:07:40 GMT
This thread is likely premature since we don't have the final rules out yet but MisterC on the Mantic forum had an interesting/thematic idea that I thought was worth exploring.
Thinking a little more on this, I could see this working well in a solo/homebrew game. You could do something like when a survivor dies, put the health tracker back to max and every melee round, each walker still in contact with the dead survivor deals another damage. When the dead survivor gets to zero, stand him/her up as a new walker. So one walker will likely sit there and munch on your dead friend for a while but a group of them will devour him quickly. You could even say that at the start of melee, the feeding walker makes noise to attract more walkers to the party (I think mayhem has too many other rules attached to it that make it unwieldy to use). Walkers in base 2 base contact to a dead survivor would still be considered engaged and so that would totally work for a Derek-Liam situation.
The other concept which currently I want to homebrew is the range that Mayhem affects. Currently Noise and Mayhem affect the same distance, 8 inches from the source. While Mayhem does have the added effect of increasing the threat level and attracting all walkers to the source, I think 8 inches is far too small for things like gun shots and explosions (which cover most of the mayhem producing effects). The comics constantly remind you that gun shots can attract walkers from miles away so for the game to only have it work at 8 inches seems to artificial. I'm fine with ignoring the realism in official tournament play if 8 inches is where it is balanced with the game but for my solo/co-op play, I'll be increasing this to the standard gun range (24 inches). I'll have to play it a couple of times to see if throws anything else off but it seemed odd in one of my tests to watch Martinez in a corner going full auto with an M16 against a bunch of survivors and the walker 9 inches away seemed to care less. M16s are freakin' loud. Maybe that walker's aural capacity was ruined at death or something...
Thoughts or other variant ideas?
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Post by misterc on Mar 3, 2016 6:53:56 GMT
I'm glad this is getting some interest. Mark did comment earlier that it was a possibility for consideration, but I suspect they are wanting to keep the rules as streamlined as possible. I agree the Mayhem is not quite right, but it seemed close and is an existing rule, your wounds tracker idea is much more elegant and seems to model the situation nicely, but I can see it getting unwieldy in large games, but for solos, as you said, it might be just right. Would the eaten survivor still have a chance to get back up or have they been more or less completely devoured?
I agree that 8" seems a bit close for the radius of Mayhem. Much larger and I suspect that the game would be weighted too much against the survivors. Don't forget that increasing the Threat Level has the indirect effect of bringing on more walkers through the event cards. Just my few thoughts.
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Post by christian on Mar 3, 2016 7:23:54 GMT
I would say the eaten survivor would get up when done or maybe (and this just makes things more complicated) that they don't get up when wounds get back to zero but you roll the action die at the end of the round like normal and they would get up if appropriate and the feeding walkers would stop and be ready for more. Probably getting too complicated at this point.
The big issue I have at the moment is range attacks are far too strong in the game. They are actually fine in a solo/co-op game as they are highly thematic and realistic (if I'm armed with a bat and you have a gun 30+ feet away, I'm likely losing that battle) but in an actual competitive situation, the current rules are broken. I don't mind throwing that term out at the moment because I read that Mark is reviewing the range combat rules and bringing them back to a more balanced state but mayhem extending for long distances is a way to help nerf ranged combat since it has a disadvantage of bringing most, if not all the walkers to you, possibly opening up running lanes for the open to grab loot or other scenario objectives. Range combat has both a threat level risk and a direct board state advantage risk if mayhem is increased to realistic levels.
I've had a few games where Martinez is just off in a corner blasting away with an M16 because Gabe or The Governor has taken down the one lone walker within 8 inches and now no other walker cares that some dude is going full Rambo in the corner. Threat level does increase but even when it gets into the middle "medium" levels, I'm not seeing a lot of walkers hit the board. By that point, I would think things are starting to get a little hairy but only 3 of 15 event cards actually bring walkers in and they only bring in 1 blue die (averaging a little less than 2 walkers per roll). Adding 1-2 walkers over 3 events is not that big and to get into the high threat levels, you need to hit 13 threat bumps. My games don't last (even at 200 points) but 5 or 6 rounds. If each round has a melee, that is still 6-7 mayhem situations or event cards bumping the threat (which can be mitigated with Hold Your Nerve rolls). Usually guns run out of ammo for me after 3 shots or less so they don't contribute much the threat. Lastly, a gun heavy crew is likely also going to try to run high nerve survivors so they don't worry about unleashing a lot of lead and racking up threat.
I'll be honest that I've haven't tried out the "24 inch" mayhem variant yet but I want to get it to the table to see how bad it gets. Depending on how the range and cover rules finally end up, it might be too much but I think mayhem should have a bigger effect area than just plain noise. Someone suggested 16 inches and maybe that is a good compromise.
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Post by misterc on Mar 3, 2016 7:48:41 GMT
How about counting downed survivors as eligible targets for 'Kill Zone' movement in the event phase? This is simple, uses existing rules and shouldn't have too great an effect on the game?
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Post by factorywalkerno2 on Mar 3, 2016 8:29:01 GMT
Yes mayhem absolutely need to be be full board no matter the size! As it is your not moving walkers around much with gunfire.
A downed survivor mechanic would be great, it should cause mayhem (screams and dinner) and before they turn (like a countdown) you should be able to scavenge their gear but with added risk you don't know when they'll turn and bite you.
Also someone mentioned about not enough walkers coming on. Maybe an additional bunch come on when the threat changes from low to medium etc.
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Post by zombiespider on Mar 3, 2016 12:57:36 GMT
You can always include your own houserules for th8ngs. While there are official rules for games, when you are playing it with friends it id your game and nothing stops you from adding your own little tweaks. I hVe experimented with loads of little tweaks and some have worked, others haven't, so the best thing to do is experiment with ideas and see what happens
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Post by easyrider1 on Mar 4, 2016 14:51:01 GMT
I just finished reading "the girl with all the gifts" by Mike Carey which is a book about zombies. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and would suggest it to anyone on here. In this book there are a few zombies who are more intelligent and without giving too much away I think making a home brew of rules to recreate this story would be pretty cool. I'm already putting together a campaign in my mind and i'm excited just thinking about it. has anyone else read this book?
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Post by christian on Mar 4, 2016 16:22:05 GMT
I haven't read that book but it sounds like it could provide some interesting variants. I will say that why this game interested me over some of the other zombie games on the market is the "back to basics" concept of the zombies in the Walking Dead universe. Resident Evil is a world to explore but I never get that old school zombie horror feeling like I do with a static, shambling undead force. Zombicide and all their variant zombies tend to over-saturate the theme and while that may be more engaging in a video game, I like the simple walker approach of the game.
If you do come up with variant rules/scenarios though, definitely post them!
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alex
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Post by alex on Mar 16, 2016 13:09:56 GMT
I mean for some survivors its easy to just sub in their zombie counterpart when they die (at least one) but i suppose its the actual game mechanic in question here.
How about when the character dies you roll a dice, the number on the dice is the number of turns it takes for them to "turn", you could probably have a marker on the die represent the character being completely consumed as well, meaning they dont actually become a walker. Kind of leave it up to chance.
It should totally be a mayhem trigger as well, maybe not full board but more than a standard mayhem, there should probably be an affect on nerve as well, sort of like a "shit a fellow survivor just died" moment.
Maybe until the turned survivor is killed, theres like a -1 affect to all other survivors on that team when it comes to nerve rolls.
(Can you tell ive only skimmed the rules)
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Post by zombiespider on Mar 16, 2016 14:35:00 GMT
Alex, while interesting ideas, I don't think it would work to well, it adds more complication to the rules that aren't really needed. Having a dice to mark the turned before someone renaimates could easily be something someone picks up to use ti see the results of a failed Nerve check (I have seen people do this is name games where a dice used to mark wounds is accidentally used to roll for a attack, I've done it myself, lol) and then the total on the dice is forgotten The idea for a feeding frenzy above is good with the wounds countdown, it reminds us with the zoms feasting away. I have been experimenting with a 24" Mayhem for chooting and it brilliant. In a urban setting the zombies might get confused at longer ranges because of echoes, but those closer (within range) will be immediately drawn to it. Personally I think the official rule should be changed to 24" instead of being at 8".
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Post by christian on Mar 16, 2016 16:05:05 GMT
agreed (on the mayhem = 24" revision)
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alex
New Member
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Post by alex on Mar 16, 2016 21:43:33 GMT
Alex, while interesting ideas, I don't think it would work to well, it adds more complication to the rules that aren't really needed. Having a dice to mark the turned before someone renaimates could easily be something someone picks up to use ti see the results of a failed Nerve check (I have seen people do this is name games where a dice used to mark wounds is accidentally used to roll for a attack, I've done it myself, lol) and then the total on the dice is forgotten The idea for a feeding frenzy above is good with the wounds countdown, it reminds us with the zoms feasting away. I have been experimenting with a 24" Mayhem for chooting and it brilliant. In a urban setting the zombies might get confused at longer ranges because of echoes, but those closer (within range) will be immediately drawn to it. Personally I think the official rule should be changed to 24" instead of being at 8". Yeah good points man. i just love rolling dice so i end up trying to work the mechanic in wherever i can, i always feel it adds a sense of randomness to play. 24" mayhem...dear god... Anyone messing around with walker numbers or are people happy with the base numbers set out in the rules?
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Post by zombiespider on Mar 16, 2016 23:54:10 GMT
I tend to use the number they suggest, but some games I have run have had more, Andrea and Amy fleeing Atlanta had them face around 14 or 15 zombies in total, it was crazy lol!
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alex
New Member
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Post by alex on Mar 17, 2016 4:01:30 GMT
I tend to use the number they suggest, but some games I have run have had more, Andrea and Amy fleeing Atlanta had them face around 14 or 15 zombies in total, it was crazy lol! What size board where you playing on?
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Post by zombiespider on Mar 17, 2016 11:25:30 GMT
I tend to use the number they suggest, but some games I have run have had more, Andrea and Amy fleeing Atlanta had them face around 14 or 15 zombies in total, it was crazy lol! What size board where you playing on? I played that one on a 2' by 4' board with lots of urban terrain and some impassible blockages like car crashes and tall barriers so the girls couldn't take a direct route. Andrea died saving Amy too, heh.
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