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Post by Troy (Admin) on Mar 7, 2016 17:38:41 GMT
Yes, I will do this soon
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Post by Troy (Admin) on Mar 10, 2016 17:45:35 GMT
I wanted to get some discussion going regarding “Mayhem”:
I see a few people wanting to double its range to 16” and others wanting it full board. While I think that is should be increased to separate it a little further from “Noise,” this may be a little too large considering that the game is design at the moment to be played (smaller levels) on a 20”x20” board. I feel at 16” or longer the zombies will be pulled back and forth and will be moved around too much by the players.
What I purpose, is a range of either 10” or 12”, this could also help nerf shooting a little as well, what do you guys think?
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Post by christian on Mar 10, 2016 23:29:13 GMT
Well, since I pushed for "full board" I think that 16" is about as small as I'd like to see it but I've never tested it out to see how that would affect things. My main rational for longer ranges is theme and range attack balance. Some guy hammering away with an M16 in the corner of the board should be drawing every eligible walker on the board towards him. He's creating an unbelievable amount of sound and should be punished accordingly. The only hesitation is that yo-yoing affect that you mention but it should give you an advantage to not shoot or cause Mayhem if your opponent is going bang-bang crazy as all the walkers will end up near him and leave you free to run around. I would think that a larger mayhem footprint would actually reduce the amount of gunfire in the game but it should be tested to see if there are other undesired game effects.
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Post by zombiespider on Mar 11, 2016 0:08:51 GMT
I have been thinking long and hard over increased mayhem footprints and couldn't work it out on paper so I tried it out in a few small 100 point test games, heck, it took longer to set up the various boards than it did to play the games, lol. A full 20" range wprks brilliantly if you ask me, but I would extend it to 24" and say "it covers the whole board for small games" just like the maximum range for pistols. It keeps it simple and has a single distance for 2 things so people don't get ranges confused.
Noise for a gun carries a long way, even further when almost everyone is dead and there are less ambient noises to dilute it and 24" should be more than plenty for the game.
Noise should be kept as it is though, no need to alter that, but Mayhem needs to be made far more deadly to avoid people being gun heavy to pick off opponents at a range.
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Post by christian on Mar 11, 2016 2:57:07 GMT
That was along my line of logic as well. It works for mayhem since standard gun range is 24" and makes it very simple for the standard 20x20 maps. I will totally put this on the table to give it a go but I have house guests and so won't be able to try for another week or so.
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Post by Troy (Admin) on Mar 11, 2016 12:54:54 GMT
I have some concern over 24" Range for "all guns" as well. I think it could be more balanced if the weapons where in classes with different ranges. I.E. Rifle 20", Handguns 12" Shotguns 10" or something to that affect. Currently it is very possible for a rifle or two to sit in a corner and blast the other team off the table without much worry, it also takes always from close combat based characters. Now, Mayham may help nerf this, but I still think that different ranges for different weapons would make logical sense as well. What do you guys think?
I am going to try and repost the chart I posted to the top of this thread and begin to fill in some of these suggested changes, which we come to some consensus on.
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Post by zombiespider on Mar 11, 2016 13:32:04 GMT
I think weapon ranges are fine as they are, if they are reduced then we get less realistic ranges than they are already and bordering on 40k weapon ranges (12" for a pistol is far to short). Terrain placement also stops camping as it were, forcing people to move. I never allow direct line of sight from 1 corner to another and while some areas may be able to see clearly across the board, I do have some cover positioned for minis to hide behind so it is harder to them to get sniped at great distances. The increased mayhem also stops camping too with it being at 24" instead of 8j since in a regular sized game 1 shot will bring every zombie on the board towards that character
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Post by christian on Mar 11, 2016 14:25:50 GMT
Again, I agree with zombiespider. Range distance hasn't been the issue with guns in my games. Cover rules need a bit of work as range distance should be long and like most wargames, terrain and cover should help to make interesting decisions. Guns already have enough range differences in 24" regular guns, 30" rifles, and 40" special rifles. Then you get into effective ranges of 6" for shotguns. The beauty about 24" ranges is that you only need to measure LOS on the standard mats and are not concerned with range.
The two big items in the core rules that I feel need review is cover/obstructed LOS bonuses and mayhem distance. Increasing dice for obstructed ranged attacks (either increasing the die value or stacking extra dice per obstruction or both) and increasing the distance that mayhem affects will help bring ranged attack advantage back in line. There are likely still individual items (like weapons, survivor, event, etc cards) that may need tweaking but the the majority of the core rules are pretty set except cover and mayhem.
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Post by Troy (Admin) on Mar 11, 2016 14:32:28 GMT
Then perhaps cover should be work on, I would just hate to see a gun line edging the board and shooting down the other group easily as they attempt to achieve objectives. Cover/Mayhem alterations could balance this out.
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Post by zombiespider on Mar 11, 2016 20:15:55 GMT
I am wondering if it would be worth trying cover with the white dice, it would increase defence, it would offer less of a chance for rolling a black and a 1 in 3 chance of getting a 2. This would further reduce the advantage of shooting (and most character given guns will tend to have a good shoot stat already) and with the increased mayhem range should bring things into balance. Not tried it out yet, but some simple 1 vs 1 character duels should prove how effective it is. As for multiple obstructions, I go by the imaginary line of sight, if you can see them and they would be in cover then only the object they are using counts. Obstructions like tall walls and buildings always block LOS unless the target is at a doorway or window, in which case they are in cover (even if the window is a big store front window, just assume there is somethere there the model can hide behind)
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